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Forum Home > Discoveries & Corrections > Discoveries & Corrections - Section 3

steve j
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Posts: 177

        In the first 2 groups of players that I have listed, I focused on those whose data was either incorrect or missing on all other websites.  Now that I have pretty much exhausted that group (with the exception of a small number that I am sure are correct, but on whom I would like to have a bit more evidence before I list them), I will start listing those players whose data is correct or at least partially correct on one or two other sites, but wrong or missing on most other sites. I will try to provide  supporting evidence. Here is the first group:

 

Group #1

 

 

1. WILLIAM LINCOLN 'BILL' MISNER - 1921 Ton  -  attended Tonawanda HS, Syracuse U.  -  He was born in Tonawanda, NY, ON 03/19/1890, and died there on 01/03/45.  His obit, which mentions his football career, is in the Tonawanda Evening News of 01/04/45. His name was not Meisner as is often listed.

 

 

2. JAMES L. 'JIMMY' SNYDER - 1925 Mil - attended Englewood HS (Chicago)  -  He was born on 03/10/09 in Chicago, and died in Cahokia, IL, on 06/29/39.  He was one of the 4 high school players recruited to play for Milwaukee against the Chicago Cardinals.  He became a prominent race-car driver, finishing 2nd at the 1939 Indianapolis 500, but unfortunately was killed in a crash a few weeks later.

 

 

 

3. THEODORE ADOLPH 'TED" SCHWARZER - 1926 Buf -  attended U of Texas, Centenary College (Louisiana) - He was born 10/07/01 in Austin, TX, and died 05/05/39 near Highlands, TX, in a freak accident.  His record is listed on many websites as belonging to Edward Schwarzer, who was born in Austin, and died in 1980.  All documentation that I have found, including bulletins from the University of Texas, lists the player as Theodore A Schwarzer of Austin.  An article in Texas newspapers of 12/03/21 and 12/04/21 mention an award as 'best tackle' given to Theodore Schwarzer of Austin.  Edward Schwarzer was not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

July 28, 2015 at 6:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #2

 

 

4. MAURICE LEE 'MOOSE' HARPER - 1937-40 Phi, 1941 Pit - attended Sherman (TX) HS, Austin College - He was born 05/14/14 in Harper, TX, and died 08/22/87 in Collin County, TX.  All records from Austin College list him as Maurice L Harper. The person listed on several sites - Maurice Sydney Harper (died in 1991) was not the player.

 

 

 

5. ROBERT LEE 'DOSEY' HOWARD - 1925-30 KC, Cleve, Det, NYG - attended Norman (OK) HS, Marietta College. He was born 02/01/01 in Norman, OK, and died there 09/30/61. His data is on Findagrave.com, and was confirmed by his granddaughter, who verified that he was the FB player.

 

 

 

6. JOSEPH H 'JOE' CAREY - 1920 ChiC, 1921 GB - He was born 03/04/1897 and died in Chicago, on 12/05/65. Obit mentioning his FB career is in Chicago Tribune 12/08/65.

 

 

In regard to Ted Schwarzer listed in the previous section, one piece of documentation omitted was that he's also listed as Theodore Schwarzer in Centenary College bulletins of that time period.

 

Thank you.

August 1, 2015 at 6:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #3

 

7.  WILLIAM FREDERICK 'BILL' KIBLER - 1922 Buffalo - attended Tonawanda HS.  He was born 04/05/1897 in Tonawanda, NY, and died in Los Angeles County, CA, 12/26/85.  His birth date varies, depending on the source used.  Tonawanda newspaper articles list him as a former football star who ran a clothing store, and moved to California.  William Joel Kibler, who is listed on most websites, is not the football player.

 

8. PAUL YOUNG - 1933 GB - attended Norman (OK) HS, U of Oklahoma. He was born 07/10/10 in Norman, and died in Muskogee, OK, on 07/20/70.  Obit is in Ada (OK) Evening Press, 07/21/70.  His plaque in the Oklahoma Sports HOF mentions him playing for Green Bay. Person who died in Texas in 1978 is not the player.

 

 

 

9. JOHN CLAUSSEN 'JACK' HELDT  -  1923, 1926 Columbus - attended Clinton (IA) HS, U of Iowa.  He was born 05/02/00 in Elk River, IA, and died 05/06/85 in Alameda County, CA. He almost died in 1951 when he was found unconscious on railroad tracks in CA. He was rescued, and lived there until his death 34 years later.  Person from Emmettsburg, IA, who died in the 1970's was not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

August 6, 2015 at 2:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #4

 

10.  Robert Ray 'Bob' Hill - 1922 Oorang  -  attended Carlisle Indian School - He was born 04/02/1892 in Smithport, PA, and died in Niagara Falls, NY, on 12/28/42. Birth data is from military records. His obit is in the Niagara Falls Gazette, 12/29/42.

 

 

11. Nelson Raymond Greene - 1948 NYY - attended Shawnee (OK) HS, Tulsa University. He was born 10/07/22 in Shawnee, OK, and died there on 10/02/2004.  Obit is in Shawnee News Star, 10/08/2004.  Person who died in 1983 and is listed on most websites is not the player.

 

 

12. Raymond Frederick 'Bub' Weller - 1923-28 St. Louis, Milwaukee, Chi Cards, Frankford - He was born 08/07/02 in Seward, NE, and died in Denver, CO, 06/03/53.  Data is from gravestone and military records. Various other birth and death dates have been listed for him, but none of those are correct.

 

 

I have recently discovered data on a few more players, whose data has not been listed anywhere else, as far as I know. I will continue to put those names at the end of the Section 2 areas.

Thank you.

 

August 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #5

 

 

13.   GROVER JOHN MALONE - 1920 ChiT, 1921 GB, RI, 1923 Akr - attended LaSalle-Peru HS (IL), U of Notre Dame  -  He was born 09/19/1895 in LaSalle, IL, and died in South Bend, IN, on 12/11/50.  Death data obtained from ND Alumni Office. Person who died in 1985 is not the player.

 

 

14. HERBERT 'HERB' MAGIDA - 1926 Hammond - He was born in Chicago on 03/15/1898, and died there 10/30/54. Obit is in Chicago Tribune, 10/31/54.  Playing career verified by family member.  He is erroneously listed in various places as William Nagida or George Mageda.

 

 

 

15. REX BUFFORD THOMAS - 1926-31 - Bkn Lions, Cleve, Det, Bkn Dodgers. He attended Sapulpa (OK) HS, University of Tulsa, St. John's U (NY). He was born 04/16/02 in Oklahoma City, and died in an accident in Sterling, CO, on 03/28/55. Obit is in Ada (OK) Evening News, 03/29/55.  Person who died in 1985 is not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

August 19, 2015 at 7:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

       This is an unusual posting, and I am inserting it here, because this is the most current section.  There is a listing on most websites for a player named Harry Webber, who attended Morningside College, then played for Rock Island in 1920 and 1923.  He is listed as Harry Sands Webber, born in South Dakota in 1892, and died in California in 1970.   First of all, this person never played football.  He is listed on every census in the same area of South Dakota where he was born, and as of 1940, had only an 8th grade education.  More importantly, I do not believe there ever was a real player named Harry Webber.  I had written to the Morningside Alumni Office many years ago, and received data concerning Jerry Johnson and Obe Wenig, the other 2 Morningside alumni who had played in the NFL, but they had no record of a Harry Webber attending.  Obe Wenig is listed on other websites either as playing 1 game for RI in 1920, or not playing with RI until 1921.  When I started checking the Rock Island Argus from 1920 to 1922, I noticed that on 10/29/20, Obe Wenig had reported to RI. Immediately afterward,  the name Webber started to appear in the RI lineup.  Wenig's name did not appear until a season-ending exhibition against the W&J Collegians.  Strangely however, in December, when a sportswriter from the Argus picked basically the first NFL all-star team, Obe Wenig was named to the 2nd team - a pretty good feat for someone who is not even listed as having played.  In the description of Wenig's playing performance, the description fit everything that was said about Webber in the individual game accounts. I believe Wenig and Webber are the same person.  I would be grateful for any feedback on this.

                                                Thank you.        

August 21, 2015 at 9:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tod Maher
Member
Posts: 15

The Decatur Herald has Wenig starting at left end in the December 7th game, so Webber probably is Wenig,

August 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Tod,

       Thanks for the additional evidence. It would be interesting to know the reason for the alternate identity.

                                                    Steve J

August 22, 2015 at 9:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tod Maher
Member
Posts: 15

Bad tyepsetting I guess. You see so many variations of player names back then (and sometimes now) in lineups, etc.

August 23, 2015 at 3:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LJP
Member
Posts: 72

RI played a non-league game against the Chicago Thorn-Tornardoes at Monmouth IL on November 11 1920. In their buildup to the game, the Monmouth Daily Atlas reported in the November 9 issue that "The ends will be Wenig Minnesota..." with no mention of Webber. Their report of the game in the November 12 issue lists Webber starting at LE with no mention of Wenig. In the report it states "Webber attempted a drop kick which went wide."

August 25, 2015 at 1:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LJP
Member
Posts: 72

The Decatur Review's report on the November 7 1920 game between the Staleys and RI lists Wenig starting at LE and also notes "...Wenig the former Morningside College star..." and "Wenig attempted a drop kick, that sailed wide of the posts.". PS - unrelated, but it also says RI wore green & yellow jerseys.

August 25, 2015 at 1:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

LJP,

         Thanks for your help.  Always good to hear from you.

                                                                            Steve J

August 28, 2015 at 8:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #6

 

16. WALTER JOSEPH 'SPEED' ELLIS  -  1924 Col, 1925 Det, 1926-27 ChiCards - attended Suffield (CT) Academy, U of Detroit.  He was born 11/11/1898 in Noank, CT, and died in KC, Missouri on 03/22/54. The persons who are listed in various places, who died in either California or Connecticut are not the player.  Data received from his nephew.

 

 

 

17.  WILLIAM CLAUDE 'WHITEY' THOMAS  - 1924 Frankford  -  attended Atlantic City (NJ) HS, Penn State - He was born 07/15/1893 in Shamokin, PA, and died 07/13/59 in Atlantic City.  Obit in Clearfield (PA) Progress, 07/16/59. Person who died in 1978 is not the player.

 

 

 

18.  ADOLPH ERNEST 'AL' KOWALSKI - 1947 Bkn - attended Central HS (Bridgeport, CT), U of Tulsa.  He was born 07/29/21 in Bridgeport, and died 08/18/59 in Tulsa.  Obit in Lawton (OK) Constitution, 08/19/59. Person who died in 1992 is not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

September 1, 2015 at 11:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #7

 

 

19.  OWEN GASTON REYNOLDS - 1925 NYG, 1926 Bkn Lions - attended U of Georgia. He was born 03/10/1893 in Donalsonville, GA (not Douglasville), and died 03/11/84 in Fruitport, MI.  His birthdate varies depending on the source document used; this seemed the most plausible.

 

 

20.  WAYNE ELIAS KAKELA - 1930 Min - attended U of Minnesota.  He was born 09/09/04 in Eveleth, MN, and died in Toledo, OH, on 02/09/55. His obit appears in the Zanesville (OH) Signal, and the Winona (MN) Daily News, both from 02/10/55.  Person who died in North Dakota is not the player.

 

 

21. ALEXANDER MATTHEW 'ALEX' BOBIDOSH - 1922 Oorang -  attended Carlisle Institute. He was born 09/09/1890 in Lac du Flambeau, MN, and died there on 09/11/1891.  He also has a varying birth date. Obit in Ironwood (MI) Daily Globe, 09/16/81.  He led a very interesting life.

 

 

Thank you. .

September 8, 2015 at 6:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #8

 

         The information for the following 3 players was obtained from the SS Claims and Applications Index. 

 

 

22.  LEAMON JOHN 'LEO' TOBIN  -  1920-21 Akron  -  attended Grove City College - He was born 11/25/1890 in Roscoe, PA, and died 11/29/52 in Pinellas County, FL.  His first name is sometimes listed as Lehman.

 

 

23.  BERNARD KANE (KAPITANSKY) - 1942 Bkn - attended New Utrecht HS (Brooklyn), Long Island U.  He was born Bernard Kapitansky in Brooklyn, on 01/01/21, changed his name to Kane in the 1950's, and died on 03/31/2004.

 

 

24. MILTON E 'MILT' REHNQUIST  -  1924-32 KC, Cleve, Prov, NYG - attended Smoky Valley HS (Lindsborg, KS), Bethany College (KS).  He was born 06/06/1897 in Illinois, and died 02/05/56, probably in Rhode Island. He had been a prison guard in RI through the early 1950's, and his widow was still listed in RI Directory in 1957.  Person listed on most websites, who was born in Minnesota and died in Nebraska was not the player.

 

Thank you.

September 9, 2015 at 6:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #9

 

 

25. WARD THOMAS 'DOC' CONNELL - 1926 Chi Cardinals, 1926 Chicago Bulls (AFL) - attended Lawrence College, U of Notre Dame. He was born 07/14/01 in Beloit, WI, and died in Chicago on 02/07/46. Obit in Rockford Register Republican, 02/09/46

 

 

26. HAROLD IRVING 'MICKEY' LIVERS (LYVERS) - 1921 Wash - attended Georgetown U. He was born 07/11/1899 in Kansas City, MO, and died 03/05/48 in Sinton, TX. Several articles in Amarillo newspaper refer to his playing career. Birth data from draft card, death data from TX Death Index.  He changed his name to Lyvers after his playing career ended. 

 

 

27. WILLIAM WALTER 'POLLY" KOCH - 1920 RI - attended U of Wisconsin. He was born 08/01/1895 in Davenport, IA and died in Manhasset, NY, on 03/21/62. Obit in NY Times, 03/23/62.  Data received from grandson. Person who died in Wisconsin in 1976 was not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

 

September 14, 2015 at 9:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #10

 

28. GEORGE RONALD 'BUCK' MACDONALD - 1921 NYG, Ton - attended Boston Latin HS, Lehigh U. He was born 04/16/1893 in Boston, and died 09/17/72 in Stearns County, MN. Several Lehigh publications list him as George R or George Ronald MacDonald, including a 1944 alumni bulletin which mentions him playing pro football. The person listed on most websites, George Glover MacDonald,, who was born in Canada, and died in 1985 is not the player.

 

 

29.   JOHN ERVIN 'JACK' NOLAN - 1926 LA Buccaneers - attended U of Santa Clara.  He was born 05/30/1899 in Stent, CA, and died in Westwood Village, CA on 07/15/73. The person listed on most websites, who died in 1971 was born in Iowa, was still living there in the mid 1920's, and did not play football.

 

 

30. JOHN VINSON 'JACK' EVANS - 1929 GB  - attended Long Beach (CA) HS, U of California.  He was born 08/05/05 in Colorado, and died in California on 03/11/80.  He is referred to in various articles of the 1920's as Vinson Evans, and succeeded his brother as quarterback at California. The person listed on most websites is John Alexander Evans, and although he was also born in Colorado and died in California, he was not the player.

 

 

Thank you.

October 12, 2015 at 6:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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