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steve j
Member
Posts: 177

 

On all pro football websites which contain birth and death data for players, there are several incorrect birth and death dates listed, because they apply to a non-player who happens to have the same name.  I would assume that anyone who is interested enough to include this data on a website would want it to be correct. Below, I have listed 3 players, along with confirmed, accurate birth and death dates, along with the source of the information.  These players have been researched thoroughly.

 

1.  John Wilson 'Cap' Cardwell - 1923 St. Louis  -  b 06/06/1896 in Waverly, NY, d 10/19/79 in Kokomo, IN. Obit in Kokomo Tribune, 10/21/79, mentions his football career, including his year in the NFL. Person listed on all other sites, who died in Delaware was not the player.

 

2.  Norman Chester 'Norm' Harvey - 1925-29  Buf, Det, NYY, Prov  -  attended U of Detroit, b 05/19/1899 in MI, d 12/24/41 in Detroit.  Death notice in Benton Harbor (MI) News-Palladium 12/27/41, mentions his FB career.  Person who died in Florida in 1963 is not the player.

 

3. Robert McKennon 'Bob' Choate - 1924 KC  - attended Haskell Institute - b 09/28/1895 in Bunch, OK, d 10/10/74 in Fort Smith, AR  -  Interview in 1962 Fort Smith newspaper mentions his FB career, including NFL time in KC.  Information and photographs provided by his grandson. Various sites had someone who died in 1964 and someone who died in CA in 1985. Neither one was correct.

I hope this helps.  More names will be forthcoming.

 

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March 6, 2015 at 7:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Corrections - Group #2

 

4. Charles Donald 'Don' Campbell - 1939-40 Pitt  -  b 01/15/17 in South Amboy, NJ  - d 03/24/64 in Pittsburgh  -  He attended South River HS in South Amboy, then Carnegie Tech.  Carnegie graduation publication list him as C Donald Campbell. Dates and playing career verified by his widow.  The Donald C Campbell who died in Philadelphia in 1991 is the wrong person.

 

5. Joseph Edmund 'Ed' Allen - 1928 ChiC  - b 06/05/01 in Dixon, IL, d 08/  /79 in Norfolk, Nebraska. He attended Dixon (IL) HS, Creighton U.  He became an assistant coach at Creighton after his playing career.  He was mentioned in an Omaha newspaper in 1957 as having won a left-handers' golf tournament in Norfolk.  The person listed on all websites was actually Edmund Turner Allen, born in Chicago in 1896, and died in a plane crash in 1943.  He was a world-renowned test pilot who had no connection to Creighton, football, etc., having become a test pilot in the early 1920's.

 

6. On all sites, there is a listing for Orville Maynard Siegfried, 1923 St Louis, attended Lees Summit HS (MO), and Washington and Jefferson College, born in Pennsylvania in 1903 and died in Kentucky in 1965.  No person by this name ever attended these institutions or played any football.  The player's real name is:

 

Adrain Burgess Seigfreid, b 10/03/1898 in MO, died 08/26/81 in Kansas City, MO. 1923 newspapers from Carbondale and Murphysboro IL list a roster of St. Louis players, including running back Adrain Seigfreid of Washington & Jefferson.  This data was confirmed by a phone conversation with a family member of his.  Note the spellings of both first and last names.  These are the correct spellings that appear on his draft card, SSDI, and gravestone.

 

Hopefully, a few more individuals who actually played pro football will get a bit of recognition.  Thanks.

 

March 7, 2015 at 9:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tod Maher
Member
Posts: 15

steve j at March 6, 2015 at 7:33 AM

On all pro football websites which contain birth and death data for players, there are several incorrect birth and death dates listed, because they apply to a non-player who happens to have the same name.  I would assume that anyone who is interested enough to include this data on a website would want it to be correct. Below, I have listed 3 players, along with confirmed, accurate birth and death dates, along with the source of the information.  These players have been researched thoroughly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  John Wilson 'Cap' Cardwell - 1923 St. Louis  -  b 06/06/1896 in Waverly, NY, d 10/19/79 in Kokomo, IN. Obit in Kokomo Tribune, 10/21/79, mentions his football career, including his year in the NFL. Person listed on all other sites, who died in Delaware was not the player.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.  Norman Chester 'Norm' Harvey - 1925-29  Buf, Det, NYY, Prov  -  attended U of Detroit, b 05/19/1899 in MI, d 12/24/41 in Detroit.  Death notice in Benton Harbor (MI) News-Palladium 12/27/41, mentions his FB career.  Person who died in Florida in 1963 is not the player.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Robert McKennon 'Bob' Choate - 1924 KC  - attended Haskell Institute - b 09/28/1895 in Bunch, OK, d 10/10/74 in Fort Smith, AR  -  Interview in 1962 Fort Smith newspaper mentions his FB career, including NFL time in KC.  Information and photographs provided by his grandson. Various sites had someone who died in 1964 and someone who died in CA in 1985. Neither one was correct.

I hope this helps.  More names will be forthcoming.

 

1. John Wilson 'Cap' Cardwell - 1923 St. Louis - b 06/06/1896 in Waverly, NY, d 10/19/79 in Kokomo, IN. Obit in Kokomo Tribune, 10/21/79, mentions his football career, including his year in the NFL. Person listed on all other sites, who died in Delaware was not the player.

 

 

****

According to his WWII draft card his middle name is Wyatt not Wilson.
His VA Death File record says he died 10/20/1979 and even his WWI gives a different birthdate (6/5/1896) from the other three sources.
March 7, 2015 at 2:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

OldestLivingProFootball.com
Site Owner
Posts: 26

Hi Tod,


Thanks for the added info on Cardwell.  I am also glad you were able to update Cardwell's page on your web site with the correct data.  It shows your commitment to having accurate information.  Hopefully others will follow our lead in this and someday, all the web sites will have the same, correct data on these players.


My best,

Jim

March 8, 2015 at 5:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Tod,

       Thanks for the data on Cardwell.  His draft card gives his middle name as Wyatt, but his obit lists it as Wilson, and his son is referred to as John Wilson Cardwell Jr. Usually, if a guy is listed as Jr., he has the exact name as his father, but since the draft card is the only legal document I could find with his full middle name, I guess that's what we go with.

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March 9, 2015 at 2:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Corrections - Group #3

 

7.  The 1930 Bears had a back named Stub Blackman.  Various source have listed him as Harold Blackman, dying in either 1964 or 1994.  His real data is as follows:

 

Edgar Lennon 'Stub' Blackman  -  1930 ChiB, b in Kingfisher, OK, 02/01/07, d in Houston, TX, 12/13/93.  He attended Claremore, OK HS and Tulsa U. His obit which details every facet of his career is in the Houston Chronicle, 12/17/93.

 

8. 'Red' Chenoweth, 1921 Louisville.is listed on all sites as Fred Myer Chenoweth, a college FB coach from West Virginia, who died in 1965, but who didn't seem to have much connection to Kentucky.  Since the old Roger Treat Encyclopedia listed the player's name as George 'Red' Chenoweth, I searched for that name in Louisville.  I was able to locate the son and daughter of George Chenoweth, and got not only confirmation of his birth and death dates and FB career, but even some pictures of other Louisville Brecks players. Here is his data:

George William 'Red' Chenoweth  -  1921 Lou - b 01/20/1899 in Pittsburgh, PA, d 10/23/70 in Murphysboro, IL

 

9.  The Treat Encyclopedia had a listing for Charles 'Doc' Kelly, who attended Northwestern U, and played for Duluth in the 1920's.  All recent listings have changed his name to Albert Kelley, from Chicago, who died in Georgia in the 1960's, but who had also played for Northwestern. The real Doc Kelly who had played at Northwestern while going to dental school there, became a dentist in Superior, WI, while he played for Duluth. Here is his data:

 

Charles 'Doc' Kelly - b 05/13/1899 in Superior, WI, d 02/25/54 in Superior' His obit in the Superior Evening Telegraph of 02/26/54 gives a detailed account of his life and role in Duluth FB.

The confusion concerning the spelling of his last name is understandable considering that one of the old Northwestern yearbooks actually spells his name 'Kelly' and 'Kelley' on the same page.

Thanks

March 9, 2015 at 3:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

OldestLivingProFootball.com
Site Owner
Posts: 26

Great work on these players Steve.  I dare say there is nobody more knowledgeable about the pioneers of pro-football than you.  You have corrected and updated hundreds and hundreds of players over the years and your work is very much appreciated by me and I am sure countless others who read your posts.  Keep up the tremendous work!


Jim Zimmerman

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March 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

 

Here is another group of players whose playing careers have been attributed to a non-player:

 

Corrections - Group #4

 

10.  WILLIAM 'WILLIE' HALPERN - 1930 SI  -  attended New Utrecht HS (Brooklyn), CCNY - b 11/06/06 in Brooklyn, d 11/05/99 in Florida.  His obit is in the Real Estate Weekly of 11/17/99, and mentions his athletic career including his year with Staten Island, plus his life after football.  The person who is listed on all sites as having died in 1990 is not the player.

 

11. WILLIAM J 'BILL' O'NEILL  -  1935 Det, 1937 Cle  - attended Quigley HS (Chicago), U of Detroit   -  He is listed on all sites as having died in 2000, but personal contact with that person's family verified that he never played any football.  The real Bill O'Neill became a Chicago policeman in 1938, and rose to the position of District Commander.  Unfortunately, neither his obit nor any references to him in poliice publications mentioned his FB career, but did mention 4 years of college.  I was able to confirm that this was the right person by a comparison of pictures of him from a U of Detroit FB program  and from a 1962 Chicago PD newsletter.  His data is as follows:

 

William J O'Neill  -  b  04/16/10 in Chicago, d 04/27/87 in Hinsdale, IL, obit in Chicago Tribune, 04/29/87

 

 

12. ROSS P 'ROSIE' GRANT - 1932 SI, 1933-34 Cin.He is listed on all sites as having been born in the Chicago area and dying in Cedar Lake, IN, in 1974, but having attended Marblehead, MA, HS and NYU.  That person had no connection to either Marblehead or NYU, and his real name was Ross Stewart Grant.  NYU yearbooks verify that their player's name was Ross P Grant.  Here is his data:

 

Ross Porter Marr 'Rosie' Grant  -  b  12/28/06 in Marblehead, MA, d 06/15/76 in Boonton, NJ.

 

Thank you.

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March 16, 2015 at 7:54 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Corrections - Group #5

 

13.  All websites have a player for 1920 Cleveland and the 1921 Brickley Giants listed as George Asher 'Ropes' Kerr, b in Ohio in 1893, d in Ohio in 1977, but strangely enough, went to high school in Medford, MA.  This person is not the player. Ropes is not the player's nickname, but his actual middle name. Here is the real data for the FB player:

 

GEORGE ROPES KERR - 1920 Cle, 1921 NYG  - b 11/10/1894 in Medford, MA, d 12/08/80 in Melrose, MA. He attended Medford HS, Catholic University.   A Catholic U Yearbook lists him as George Ropes Kerr, Medford Mass.

 

14.  There is a player for the 1935 Pittsburgh Pirates named Tom Cosgrove of Vandergrift, PA.  I have never found evidence of a Tom Cosgrove playing football, but I found several references to a Ray Cosgrove, including one from a 1935 newspaper which mentioned Ray Cosgrove being cut from the Pirates after the first regular-season game, to make room for a more experienced running back.  I also found that he played for a sandlot team in the Pittsburgh area for a couple more years. I was able to talk to his son, Raymond Jr., who had been a 3-year starter at Bucknell.  He filled me in on the rest of the details of his father's life. Data is as follows:

 

RAYMOND JOHN 'RAY' COSGROVE - 1935 Pitt - b 11/15/10 in Greensburg, PA, d 08/23/64 in Pittsburgh.  He attended St. Rosalia HS (Greensburg) and Ohio State for 1 year.

 

 

15.  All websites list a 1929 Providence player as Louis W Jennings, b 1904 in Oklahoma, d in Texas in 1983.  This person 's actual name was Lewis B Jennings, he was not Indian, and he never played football. Here is the data for the actual player:

 

LOUIE WALTER 'BLUE SUN' JENNINGS  -  1929 Prov - He was born in Muskogee, OK, 01/12/04, died in Ohio, 10/25/57.  He attended Muskogee Central HS, Haskell Institute, Centenary College.  After football, he became a professional wrestler, using the name Blue Sun Jennings or just Sun Jennings.  His real first name seems to have been Louie (not Louis). He married a woman from the Toledo area, and settled there.  His obit is in the Muskogee Phoenix, 10/26/57.

 

Thank you.

 

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March 21, 2015 at 7:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #6

 

16. JESSE J BROWN  -  1926 Pottsville - b 11/03/02 in Oskaloosa, IA, d 03/16/83 in Honesdale, PA.  He attended Nichols Prep in Buffalo, NY, and U. of Pittsburgh.  He was living in Allentown as late as 1975, according to an article about the 50th reunion of Pitt's 1925 team. I was able to locate his grandson who provided me with his birth and death data, corroborated by SSDI and Iowa Birth Index.  Person listed on other websites was not the player.

 

17.  ARTHUR CLEVELAND 'ARTIE' STEVENSON 1926-28 NYG, NYY, Bkn (AFL)  -  b 05/05/1896 in Bradford, PA, d 08/22/71 in Tuckahoe, NY. He attended Bradford HS, Fordham U, and became an attorney in NYC after his FB career.  There are several references to him through the years in Bradford newspapers, mentioning his career at Fordham and his career as an attorney.  His death notice in the NY Times mentions his interment in Bradford. The person who died in 1987 listed on other websites is not the player.

 

18.  There is a listing for the 1924 Bears for a Harold F 'Harry' O'Connell, born in 1904.  This is not the player.  Here is the data for the real Harry O'Connell:

 

HARRY J O'CONNELL, - 1924 ChiB - b in Chicago 08/10/1895, d in Dyer, IN, 03/26/59. He became a captain in the Chicago Police Department after his playing career.  His obituary in the Chicago Tribune of 03/28/59 mentions him playing with the Chicago Bears.  For some reason, he has been removed from the Bears' roster on one of the other FB databases.  However, on checking newspaper accounts of the October 12th, 1924, game against Racine, there is a listing of substitutions, including 'Healy for O'Connell'.  This would seem to indicate that he did appear in a game, and should be included on the roster.

 

Thank you.

March 31, 2015 at 9:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

GROUP # 7

 

19.  RUSSELL NEIL MACLEOD  - 1934 StL - attended St. Louis U    born  02/04/05 in Calumet, MI, d 11/20/88 in CA  - I had received information from the St Louis U Alumni Office in the 1970's, listing his name as Russell N MacLeod.  At the college, he lived in an athletic dorm, with other future pro players Joe Lintzenich and Bennie LaPresta.  His birthplace was listed as Michigan.  He became a prominent attorney in St. Louis after football. His data was confirmed by a family member.  The person listed on other websites, named Russell Ferguson MacLeod, who was born in Canada is not the player.

 

20.  THOMAS MARION 'TOM' MURPHY - 1926 KC, Columbus - attended St. Mary''s, KS HS, and St. Mary's College, also in St. Mary's, KS. He was born 02/03/06 in Fletcher, OK, died 07/20/80 in CA.  An article in the Deseret News (Utah) of 02/13/41, at the time of his promotion to a new job in California mentioned his FB career with KC and Columbus, and also his minor league baseball career in the Red Sox chain. The person named Thomas Bartley Murphy, who lived his entire life in Ohio, and is listed on all websites, is not the player. 

 

21. THOMAS B MURPHY - 1934 ChiC  -  attended Batesville, AR, HS and U of Arkansas. He was born 04/02/09 in AR and died 08/28/79 in Russellville, AR. He was inducted into the Arkansas HOF in 1964, at which time he was a patient at the State Tuberculosis Hospital in Booneville, AR. According to his listing on Findagrave.com, he lived most of his life in Booneville. The person who died in Houston in 1981 is not the player.

 

Thank you

April 6, 2015 at 9:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #8

 

22. JAMES E 'JIM' KENNEDY  -  1925 Buf - attended Holy Cross, Boston College.  He was born 02/06/00, died 09/22/74 in Boston.  Obits in Boston Globe and Lewiston (ME) Journal-Sun mention his college career and his pro year with Buffalo.  Person listed on all sites, who was born and died in New Hampshire, is not the player.

 

23.CHARLES CLINTON 'BUNNY' BELDEN  -  1927 Dul, 1930-31 ChiC.A- attended Visalia-Union HS (CA), St. Mary's College (CA).  He was born 10/08/06 in Sonoma County, CA, died 09/04/78, in Red Bluff, CA.  He played for a Santa Rosa (CA) independent team, and was brought eastward by Ernie Nevers to play for Duluth. The person listed on all sites is Charles William Bolden, who was a commercial artist who spent his life in the Chicago area. He was not the player.

 

24.  JOHN R BEASLEY - 1923 Dayton - attended Earlham College.  He was born 10/24/00 in Indiana, died 11/02/78 in Franklin, IN.  Earlham College Alumni Office listed him in a Franklin, Indiana, nursing home in 1976. Earlham yearbooks from the 1920's listed him as John R Beasley. Person listed on all sites, who died in 1964, was John Hope Beasley, who attended Princeton University, and was a practicing lawyer in 1920, and never played football.

 

Thank you.

April 11, 2015 at 2:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #9

 

25. JESSE MARVIN 'MARV' WOOD - 1924 Kenosha  -  born 07/18/02 in Mancos, CO, and died 09/19/93 in Tucson, AZ.  NFLPA directory had listed him as living in Tucson in the 1980's, so the person listed on all other sites, who died in 1973, was not the player.  Jesse seems to have been his given name, but he seems to have dropped it entirely in later life.

 

26. EDWARD EUGENE 'GENE' DONALDSON - 1953 Cle - attended East Chicago (IN) HS, U of Kentucky.  He was born 09/29/30 in Indiana, died 08/16/92 in Irving, TX.  His obituary is in the Gary (IN) Post-Tribune of 08/19/92.  He is listed on some websites as dying in 2003, but that Gene Donaldson was born in 1923, and was not the player.

 

27 .EUGENE RUSSELL 'RUSS' SMITH - 1921 Staleys - attended U of Illinois, Navy. He was born 11/11/1895 in Carbondale, IL, and died 06/13/48 in Johnson City, IL. His obituary is in the Carbondale Free Press of 06/14/48.  The person who died in 1958 is not the player.

 

April 17, 2015 at 6:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Group #10

 

28. GLENN EARL OLSON - 1940 Cle - attended U of Iowa.  He was born 03/31/16 in Colo. IA, and died 11/  /82 in Colo.  U of Iowa articles list the player as Glenn E Olson of Colo.  The person listed on all websites, who died in 1973, was Glenn Averil Olson, was born in Soldier, IA (not Colo), and was not the player.

 

29. REX B. WILLIAMS - 1940 ChiC, 1945 Det  -  attended Texas Tech. He was born 05/12/18, in Bonham, TX, and died 09/08/2007 in Brentwood, FL. His obit, which lists his FB career, is in the Citrus County Chronicle (FL) of 09/10/2007.  Person who died in 1980 is not the player.

 

30. JACK ROY MAY - 1938 Cle - attended Centenary College.  He was born 11/04/14, and died 04/05/99 in Alexandria, LA. His obit which mentions his FB career is in the Alexandria Town Talk of 04/06/99, and also on Findagrave.com. Francis John May, who is the person listed on all websites, was not the player.

 

Thank you.

April 20, 2015 at 10:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tod Maher
Member
Posts: 15

Is it Glen and not Glenn?  All the ancestry.com data for the 3/31/1916-11//1982 (VA death file says 11/11/1982) Olson says Glen (one n).

April 20, 2015 at 1:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

steve j
Member
Posts: 177

Tod,

          In regard to Olson's first name, 3 censuses, his marriage license, WWII bonus request, and his Findagrave listing show the spelling as 'Glenn'. His birth certificate, SSDI, and 1 census list 'Glen'.  The Hawkeye yearbooks list both spellings.  Thanks for the completion of his death date.

                                           Steve J

April 21, 2015 at 5:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

LJP
Member
Posts: 72

Re: HARRY O'CONNELL

Posted a message on the PFRA board in February 2015 about Harry O'Connell. His full name was Harry Joachim O'Connell (source: 1938 Chicago Daily News photo). He would appear to be the same O'Connell that played C for the Opal A.A. in Chicago during 1923. The NFL lists him as a University of Chicago player, but I have so far found no record of this and it would appear to be an error. Probably just a "Chicago" player, i.e. semi-pro.

December 4, 2015 at 4:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

LJP
Member
Posts: 72

Re: RUSS SMITH

Smith played at Southern Illinois (1914; Captain), Navy (1915; class of 1919) and Illinois (1920). The 1958 death made no sense, since during the Staley reunion in 1956 he was recorded as deceased.

December 5, 2015 at 6:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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